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July 20, 2007
Booze and Crime
Not quite sure I understand this:
A Home Office report disclosed that offences of assault, criminal damage and harassment between 3am and 6am rose sharply in the 12 months after the reforms came in.
Right, a rise at a certain time of day.
There was a 22 per cent leap in specific alcohol-fuelled crime between
3am and 6am, although averages across the whole day were slightly down.
Indeed, a rise in booze related crime at a certain time and a fall in total incidence of booze related crime.
Err, isn't that what the relaxation of drinking hours was supposed to do? Spread around the times at which argumentative drunks were on the street and thus reduce total crime?
Or have I misunderstood the report here?
July 20, 2007 in Law | Permalink
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Comments
I think you are spot on, Tim, but that should be obvious.
Pubs were open for a good 8-10 hours every day before the legislation, if that was not enough time for 99.99% of the serious day-long drinkers to get completely rat-arsed then I don't know what is.
Adding 1 or 2 hours, or any amount, to this time is not going to make people "more drunk", it will, as you say, spread it out a bit.
In any case, just how many reports of "assault, criminal damage and harassment between 3am and 6am" were taking place every day before the legislation ? Are we talking about a 22% increase on 100,000 crimes, or just 100 ?
Posted by: IanCroydon | Jul 20, 2007 9:15:48 AM
>Adding 1 or 2 hours, or any amount, to this time is not going to make people "more drunk"
I disagree. The main reason we drinkers wanted longer opening hours was so that we, the average British drinker, could get more drunk. The point Tim makes about crime rates is correct, but it isn't the case that most of us are at the pub longer but are somehow drinking the same amount as before.
Posted by: Blithering Bunny | Jul 20, 2007 9:58:29 AM
Blithering Bunny, it's not really surprising that you and others are drinking the same amount as before.
Speaking to a landlord who owns a host of pubs in the local town he didn't want the legislation. He wasn't against it, rather he just didn't need it. People come out with money, let's say 40 quid, in their pocket. That's how much they spend so it was more efficient for him (in cost terms) that they were piling the drinks down quick than drawing the night out dancing, etc.
Whilst I think time was a restriction on some people's drinking (certainly I've run up against it a few a times), budget also plays a large and seemingly uncommented upon role. Evidence for this is that it is typical in my age group (20s) to down a bunch of drinks at home either alone or with some mates before you go out because it's cheaper.
Posted by: Philip Thomas | Jul 20, 2007 12:08:52 PM
>Blithering Bunny, it's not really surprising that you and others are drinking the same amount as before.
But I said the opposite. I think people drink more when the hours are longer. Sure, some people go home and continue to drink, but generally most people prefer to drink out with friends, so the longer they do it, the more they drink.
What is probably true is that people spend less per hour than they used to, in which case I can understand a landlord thinking that having to stay open until 1am is not worth it, given that this disrupts his life. But overall, from my experience of spending a lot of time over the last two decades in late-opening pubs in Australia and British pubs that close at 11, overall you drink more when the pubs open later, even if you do slow your rate down a bit.
Posted by: Blithering Bunny | Jul 20, 2007 12:35:31 PM
Blithering bunny, sorry I misread the last line of your post.
I live near Leeds where most of the central bars stayed open late even before the legislation. I thought this was brilliant compared to the town in Essex I grew up in where the local nightclub had a monopoly on late drinking.
Unfortunately, these Leeds bars are hardly restful or conversation-friendly. The advantage of the legislation as I see it is that I can now theoretically have a late drink in a place without wall-to-wall people and thumping basslines. That said, places like that don't seem to feature much on the Leeds landscape so my drinking habits remain relatively unchanged.
I'd be interested if they've done studies comparing the changes in drinking habits in areas where late licenses have been granted and areas without. I wouldn't be surprised if the drinking habits of the nation are so tuned to the previous pub hours that the attitudes of drinkers will take a long time to show any real change.
Posted by: Philip Thomas | Jul 20, 2007 1:34:24 PM
The rise between 3 and 6 is surely a result of the way this was implemented. There are a vanishing small number of placesthat were granted full 24 hour licenses. What actually happened was that a lot bars and pubs were granted extensions and now open until 2- 3 am. At kicking out time, with a bunch of drunk people on the street at the same time bad stuff still happens - shock horror.
Posted by: JayN | Jul 20, 2007 1:38:55 PM
