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May 01, 2007

George and Climate Change Again

It would seem that George Monbiot doesn't understand that some actions will cause more problems than they might solve:

This is a cut in total emissions, not in emissions per head. If the population were to rise from 6 billion to 9 billion between now and then, we would need an 87% cut in global emissions per person. If carbon emissions are to be distributed equally, the greater cut must be made by the biggest polluters: rich nations like us. The UK's emissions per capita would need to fall by 91%.

But our governments appear quietly to have abandoned their aim of preventing dangerous climate change. If so, they condemn millions to death. What the IPCC report shows is that we have to stop treating climate change as an urgent issue.

Assume that he's right in his predictions (which I don't think that he is but that's another matter) and that failure to cut carbon emissions by 91% in the rich world does indeed mean that millions will die from the effects of climate change.

OK, how many would die from the attempt to cut carbon emissions by 91%? Is it a greater or smaller number than would die from the cimate change? If we don't know that number then we can't make a rational decision. Not shouldn't make a decision, but literally cannot.

I also found this interesting:

But my figure now appears to have been an underestimate. A recent paper in the journal Climatic Change emphasises that the sensitivity of global temperatures to greenhouse gas concentrations remains uncertain. But if we use the average figure, to obtain a 50% chance of preventing more than 2C of warming requires a global cut of 80% by 2050.

There is, to put it mildly, a certain amount of controversy about the numbers for climate sensitivity. James Annan for example seems to think it is rather lower than other estimates. So George is right that it remains uncertain, but then wrong to use the figure he does, as he's not taking into account the full range of said uncertainty in reaching his "average".

Still, let's go back to assuming that George is correct. Emissions have to fall by 87% per capita globally, or 91% in the rich countries. This is to prevent the problems associated with climate change.

So, does anyone think this is possible? Achievable in any manner? Leaving aside the point that I think it would be more costly, both financially and in terms of lives lost, to do so rather than put up with the warming and its effects, I most certainly don't have enough faith in politics and politicians that they would be able to do this.

That leaves us with two further options.

1) We can try geo-engineering. Stick sulphur and soot into the atmosphere for example (we know this works, although with side effects) and recreate the cooling of the 40s to 70s. We could try seeding the oceans with iron (or at least experiment with it). If millions are going to die and there's no credible way that we're going to reduce emissions sufficiently to stop it, we really do have a duty to try these things, don't we?

2) We could (and to my mind should, anyway) prepare for adaptation. That essentially means growing the economy, most especially in the poor countries, as fast as possible. Wealthy places will be able to deal with climate change better than poor ones. In fact, we could do exactly as George suggests:

What the IPCC report shows is that we have to stop treating climate change as an urgent issue. We have to start treating it as an international emergency.

Yes, let's do that. The poor countries need to become rich, very quickly, so that they too will be able to ride the coming storm. This means providing them with aid, of course, the most useful of which is removing the predatory elites which currently rule such places and imposing the rule of law and free economies. Get rid of the bandits currently oppressing the people and let capitalism rip.

This in turn means the return of western intervention...the white man's burden to use a very un-PC phrase. Scour Nigeria free of corruption, hang Obiang, jail Kim Jong Il and so on, so that those currently standing in the way of the only viable course of action are removed.

There will be those of course who insist that it's not that much of an emergency, that at least one of the above suggestions must surely be being made in jest. They might even be right.

But given that I think it's quite obvious that we're not going to cut emissions by 91% by 2050, which one of those suggestions is the joke becomes more difficult to work out.

May 1, 2007 in Climate Change | Permalink

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Comments

You predicate your comments on the assumption that dramatically cutting greenhouse emissions will cause more deaths than allowing "dangerous" global warming to proceed. You do this even though you state that if we don't know the number of deaths, "then we can't make a rational decision". We "literally cannot" make a decision, apparently.

Yet you have seemingly made a decision, based on... what? Do you know the number of deaths? It seems you do, because you think an 87% per capita cut in emissions would be "more costly, both financially and in terms of lives lost" rather than doing nothing and tolerating the ensuing global warming. Your ideas for the future are apparently based on this unique insight. So how many deaths, Tim? Or are you simply being irrational?

But this is all a model of logic and consistency by comparison with your conclusion. You don't trust politicians to negotiate and enforce emissions targets. Politicians are, you have said previously, "stupid and venal". Their lies can be detected, as you so hilariously and originally observed, by the fact of their lips moving. They are "all scum sucking opportunists".

So we shouldn't trust them to negotiate any sort of climate change treaty. But we should trust them to shoulder the "white man's burden" worldwide, and, er, invade North Korea, among other places. This would perhaps result in a few hundred thousand dead, given the artillery trained on Seoul and the nuclear weapons, but hey, it must be better than letting politicians near treaty negotiation. And to see the exemplary results of their burden shouldering we can of course study Iraq. There they have clearly shown their capacity to "[g]et rid of the bandits currently oppressing the people and let capitalism rip", so why not give them whack at it elsewhere?

But given that I think it's quite obvious that we're not going to cut emissions by 91% by 2050, which one of those suggestions is the joke becomes more difficult to work out.

Not for any sane individual. In fact, you have illustrated exactly why your world capitalist utopia, even if it could exist, and even if it could effectively mitigate the effect of serious global warming, is hardly likely to come about soon enough to help those billions of people you affect to care about.

Tim adds: Glad you saw the reference to the word "joke".

Posted by: StuartA | May 1, 2007 12:34:00 PM

Yes, I saw the reference to the word "joke", and recognised it for what it was: a feeble get-out — just like your reply above.

Was your inconsistent rambling about death tolls a joke? We don't know.

How do you believe anyone will "let capitalism rip" in North Korea soon enough to help anybody there? We don't know.

Above all, was it a "joke" to suggest that you are right about climate change and Monbiot is wrong? On the evidence so far, I imagine it was.

Posted by: StuartA | May 1, 2007 12:54:59 PM

And talking of feeble get-outs, did you notice that I have neatly side-stepped the need to explain just how to quantify the deaths from global warming? It's all part of being an earnest left-wing twit, that makes me so much better than you.

Posted by: StuartA | May 1, 2007 1:03:57 PM

Tee hee. And you have side-stepped making any argument at all. Great.

Posted by: StuartA | May 1, 2007 1:26:36 PM

Apparently there's global warming on Mars at the moment as well - see EU Referendum blog. How many million deaths will that cause?

Posted by: Mark Wadsworth | May 1, 2007 3:49:32 PM

Less Martians means less crop circles, UFOs and fewer abductions. Do you think I can get some government funding?

Posted by: Kit | May 1, 2007 5:09:19 PM

Timmy is on the right lines here, jest or not, whether global waming turns out to be a problem or not.

Indeed, the plan to spread capitalism, democracy, law, science (and the mass media) is the best hope for the world IMHO. It is happening anyway, but faster would be better.

It will take decades, not years, to make significant progress. But we should start now, or soon...

Posted by: Bruce G Charlton | May 1, 2007 5:20:59 PM

it does not matter gobal warming or not
everyone dies sooner or later any way.
and to think you could stop it is just stupid. If you realy want to do your part
then you would kill your self now just think of al that CO2 you will no longer breath out.

Posted by: mike higgs | May 2, 2007 6:22:50 PM

it does not matter gobal warming or not
everyone dies sooner or later any way.
and to think you could stop it is just stupid. If you realy want to do your part
then you would kill your self now just think of al that CO2 you will no longer breath out.

Posted by: mike higgs | May 2, 2007 6:26:14 PM

Tim, you are right that whatever we do on the mitigation side it will be too little, too late, thanks to the rent-seeking in the US that has helped to stall international negotiations on effective management of the atmospheric commons.

So yes, we absolutely do need to move forward on adaptation, especially in aiding the third world to become wealthier, in precisely the ways you have suggested. But it seems that you are beating a very lonely drum indeed - where is all the rest of the support among conservatives to make a joint international effort to improve governance in the third world?

And why can't the west do both - implement coordinated policies that price GHG emissions AND make a concerted effort to help the developing nations?

Posted by: TokyoTom | May 8, 2007 5:57:43 AM

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